Authors Ask: Can Randomness Explain the Fine-Tuning of the Universe?

///Authors Ask: Can Randomness Explain the Fine-Tuning of the Universe?

This topic contains 22 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Aurora Carlson 3 years ago.

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  • #4978 Score: 1

    Deepak Chopra
    Moderator
    60 votes
    @deepakchopra

    Authors Ask

    Dear Readers of You Are the Universe,

    As you know, we, the authors, have a question for you for every chapter of the book. You might want to answer the following question after you have read the chapter Why Does the Universe Fit Together So Perfectly? Your comments are welcome even if you have not read the book and you are welcome to engage in discussion with other members.

    Our question to you is:

    Do you consider that randomness and coincidence can explain the fine-tuning of the universe, the existence of life on Earth and your personal existence?

    Or is a self-organizing universe where every layer monitors and regulates another layer and where all components are equally cared for and nourished more logical to you?

    We would love to know what thoughts and experiences have led to your conclusion.

    Love,
    Deepak and Menas

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #4995 Score: 2

    Tom
    Participant
    9 votes
    @tom

    I think the confluence of DNA and our own human-created software code points directly to an intelligence within nature itself.

    This post has received 2 votes up.
    • #4996 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      That sounds quite logical, Tom!

    • #5475 Score: 0

      Elena
      Participant
      6 votes
      @elena

      Randomness does not give order.
      The universe is appearing and disappearing at he speed of light . Since it does that we can say that this quantum vacuum has an organizing power that keeps the universe the same . This field is awareness , which is self aware, self guided, self manifesting.

  • #4998 Score: 2

    Tom
    Participant
    9 votes
    @tom

    Thank you. I write about it in my own book which I believe complements the work of Deepak and Menas….

    “If DNA is Software Who Wrote the Code: The Profound significance of Life’s Programming Language.”

    http://azurereadingbooks.com/if-dna-is-software-who-wrote-the-code

    This post has received 2 votes up.
    • #5000 Score: 1

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Sounds good! It would be interesting to hear your thoughts after reading the chapter “Why Does the Universe Fit Together So Perfectly?” and see if more ideas arise through that dialogue. Let us know if so! 🙂

      This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5004 Score: 3

    Tom
    Participant
    9 votes
    @tom

    Yes well I am also a fan of Dr. Robert Lanza and Biocentrism.

    In my book I draw only one conclusion – that since DNA is an “organic programming language” of unknown origin – and we know that all other software was created by teams of intelligent humans – then some immense intelligence – whether material or nonmaterial – must exist or have existed.

    To me the notion that all of reality (the universe) is itself intelligent makes the most sense, which is why I am also a huge fan of Deepak’s work. Menas saw a presentation of mine at SAND a while back. I think this is very important work and with our preoccupation and intimate knowledge of computers (and our personal use of them) an examination of the meaning of “code” can open more people up to the reality of consciousness.

    Thanks for listening.

    This post has received 3 votes up.
    • #5005 Score: 0

      Deepak Chopra
      Moderator
      60 votes
      @deepakchopra

      Tom, I agree but DNA itself is also a human construct to explain a mode of knowing and experience in awareness.
      Awareness creates symbols of its own self awareness.

    • #5015 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Tom, I too like Robert Lanza’s ideas, and also his freshness and enthusiasm and I guess that for those who have understood that consciousness is primary, a wealth of new ways of looking at their domains of research becomes possible.

      I understand your point and I find it a very valuable one in the process of helping those people who are caught in a materialistic point of view. We all understand computers, we understand programming, so your parallel could awaken the new questions necessary for progress. It is, when you think of it, quite strange that many scientists who consider themselves driven by reason accept the “randomness” point of view without questioning. I guess their resistance might be due to the fact that the only alternative they see is that of a guy in the sky, and so they recoil from that but fail to understand that the consciousness perspective is something completely different.

      I believe that all ways forward are good. But I also agree with Deepak when he says that understanding is not complete until we have realized that all of it, including the objects of research of any branch of science and the scientists themselves are what Deepak and others call constructs, and that they are nothing “other” than expressions of consciousness itself. Only with this complete shift does everything fall into place.

  • #5008 Score: 1

    Ludy
    Participant
    1 vote
    @ludy

    Your Healing of the Soul Meditation has helped me tremendously. I have suffered from tremendous anxiety since childhood. My mother suffered from mental illness all her life and childhood was tough to say the least. As a child I wished I could heal her. I did not know then my path would be Alternative medicine. Im in my 3rd year of studies. I believe my mother would have been healed with Ayurvedic medicine. My life has changed so much. Had I not found your books and videos, I probably would not have found my lifes purpose. The power of the mind and belief are EVERYTHING. If my brothers and sisters and I believed all this DNA stuff we would be nowhere. Instead we are business owners,entrepreneurs,alternative med students and our youngest sister is doing her Phd at Harvard. Ill be buying this new book as well. Many times our suffering leads us to our purpose. Medicine in the West needs to change!

    This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5016 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Hi Ludy, thank you so much for sharing your path and congratulations for having found such flow in your life! I too am a practitioner and teacher of Ayurveda so I understand your enthusiasm. I use to say that one can’t believe in complementary medicine until one experiences its effects.

      Here too, like in the dialogue with Tom, I notice that all the roads lead to Rome so to say. In the end, Ayurveda points to consciousness as the “real” reality and source of matter, just like conventional science, when done with sincerity and dedication leads to consciousness as the only satisfying and complete answer to fundamental questions.

      So whether we talk about doshas and karmic influences or about the DNA of a person… we need to move forward in realizing that all of it is systems of thought based on concepts- in the one undivided consciousness.
      Does this resonate with you?

  • #5012 Score: 1

    Tom
    Participant
    9 votes
    @tom

    Deepak, thank you – yes I remember discussing this with you of course.
    But that is exactly my point – all symbolic or conceptual knowledge (what I believe you call a “construct”) is ultimately a metaphor for reality but the recognition of DNA’s objective meaning as “software” – an active encoding of an immense (non human) intelligence is MORE than metaphor or symbol — at least for me taking that in the gut goes beyond the egoic mind to the Source of all intelligence. And it is the direct comparison to what we know as “computer programming” that brings home this recognition – knowing what we now have learned with our incredible technology and the power of encoded intelligence (programming) how do we account for this?

    It is akin to seeing the monolith in 2001 a Space Odyssey…

    Our labeling and “understanding” of DNA by reprogramming it and identifying it is surface knowledge and not a real confrontation with its profound meaning – which to me is that the universe is conscious and infinitely intelligent. That is why I believe it complements your book.

    The fact that organic life expresses itself with this level of intelligence is a direct pointer to the reality of consciousness – or it was for me. It is our first real glimmer of a superior nonhuman intelligence, and rather than attribute it to little green men it makes more logical sense to attribute it ultimately to reality. This breaks through all constructs directly to our own experience, within which our own awareness of DNA has also of course unfolded… (As you say, a “construct” within our experience).

    It is why i am also taken by Dr. Robert Lanza’s Biocentrism.

    Thank you for replying.

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5013 Score: 1

    Tom
    Participant
    9 votes
    @tom

    One last little tidbit although I am very grateful to have any discussion – this recognition, to me, is on point EVIDENCE of when our friend Eckhart Tolle says, there is an immense intelligence that runs our bodily functions, circulation, respiration, digestion, etc.

    With our direct experience with programming our electronic devices we can begin to recognize the reality of this truth as opposed to the mundane computer “metaphor” and I believe properly conveyed it would even put a dent into the arguments of someone like Michael Shermer but that’s asking a lot I know.

    I gave him the quick pitch at your event with Eckhart and he blithely replied “Evolution”
    but as you say that is again a “construct” and nonexplanation.

    How do we account for the presence of an organic programming language that instructs our biology?

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5021 Score: 0

    Tom
    Participant
    9 votes
    @tom

    I suppose there is no way to know except within oneself whether the “shift” has taken place, or is real or illusory. Perhaps the degree of suffering one experiences is a good indicator.

    Another experience that I believe can trigger the shift is simply looking up at the night sky and realizing that the “construct” of inside/outside simply does not apply. There is no knowable outside and that recognition — to me — can create a shift toward a view beyond scientific materialism – since the mind – or source of such a construct – is unable to prove an “explanation.”

    I triggers an ineffable feeling of profound awe for what is rather than what is imagined.

    That is how I feel about the DNA – software conundrum. This “construct” in consciousness is again a nonresponsive explanation unless one goes beyond a cause/effect construct and attributes consciousness to reality as opposed to a fictitious self.

    That is how it landed for me and it has been profound. If it doesn’t work for others, so be it.

    • #5030 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Tom, you say

      I suppose there is no way to know except within oneself whether the “shift” has taken place, or is real or illusory. Perhaps the degree of suffering one experiences is a good indicator.

      I so much agree! We know when we know, self-knowledge is a process of maturation of the realization of one’s true identity. Suffering is definitely only tied to specific form, be it subtle (thought) or gross (body). That is why, in my experience, learning to let go of identification with whatever arises within consciousness- thoughts, emotions, experiences… all of it… letting go of all that is the fastest way to remember who/what I am, which is not the person 🙂

      Just like you describe- knowing, experiencing reality in oneself and all brings profound awe. It’s another kind of awe than being “in awe” over a new device, theory or dress though, and one has to have experienced it to understand the difference. Rumi put it so well when he wrote “By God, when you see your beauty you will be the idol of yourself”.

  • #5023 Score: 0

    Tom
    Participant
    9 votes
    @tom

    According to conventional science, over 4 billion years ago, biochemistry “randomly” achieved a level of technological sophistication and mathematical perfection that modern humans could not comprehend until the late 20th century.
    Seriously?
    http://azurereadingbooks.com/if-dna-is-software-who-wrote-the-code

  • #5037 Score: 0

    Tom
    Participant
    9 votes
    @tom

    Hi again, and thanks Deepak for the video response and the kind email.

    It occurred to me that my ideas are perceived as “dualistic” – despite meeting you briefly at th Science and Nonduality conference. Let me try to clarify and show why I believe we are in alignment….

    Humans developed technology that uses symbolic encoded intelligence to calculate and make decisions through silicon chips to convey meaning.

    Biologists discovered DNA and investigated further.
    Using supercomputers, they were able to sequence or decode the patterns in DNA and discover that it represents symbolic encoded intelligence to calculate and make decisions through biochemistry and biologists can now discern its meaning.

    The code used in computers requires teams of programmers and engineers years to develop intelligently and intentionally.
    DNA has existed since the beginning of organic life, about 4.6 billion years.

    How do we account for the encoded meaning operating our biology?

    We can imagine that another species of engineers and programmers created us – kicking the problem down the road.

    Or we can look at the more obvious answer – according to Occam’s Razor – the cleanest solution: Reality itself, out of which organic life has evolved, is infinitely intelligent.

    The “shift’ is that there is no Who, What or How. Or Me or Us. There is only THIS.

    In order to see “this,” we need to jettison the notion of a dualistic reality – the existence of a separate random world – and posit only one “thing” in existence – Life/Reality/Consciousness/Being. Or as Eckhart Tolle calls it – “no thing.”

    Of course this would completely reorient all of our sciences in the apparent direction of quantum physics. (And remove the cachet of “objectivity” known as “Scientism”).

    It will be seen that we (the observers) do NOT affect or cause phenomena, but rather that “we” as a thought-based conditioned self are simply appearing within this reality, and the phenomena actually occur via our own senses as experience according to the laws and functions of an infinite intelligence operating mysteriously “as us.”

    This would also address the current “reality is a computer simulation” hypotheses – because the concept, or as Deepak says the “construct” of a computer simulation is a projection within human thought from its limited perspective on reality (and its current technical experience).

    Thank you.

    (For the record I am not “Editor in Chief” of Collective Evolution – that title belongs to my young friend who interviewed you at SAND, Mark DeNicola although he has left CE, and Joe Martino. I am, ironically, their Science and Tech columnist. Thanks and much love).

  • #5116 Score: 1

    Paul Gopal
    Participant
    15 votes
    @paul

    Interesting conversation.
    Yes, self-organizing universe.
    The universe is alive.

    “Whoever knows the world as something to be utilized knows God the same way. His prayers are a way of unburdening himself– and fall into the ears of the void. He– and not the ‘atheist’ who from the night and longing of his garret window addresses the nameless– is godless.”

    Martin Buber

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5526 Score: 1

    Elan
    Participant
    9 votes
    @elan

    ” CAN RANDOMNESS EXPLAIN THE FINE-TUNING OF THE UNIVERSE?

    Ahhh
    the simple answer is
    “No”

    Qualia is the key here and only the fully alive heart-mind and conscious being can participate
    in the refinements of “Qualia”

    Namaste’

    The new website here is incredible
    truly work of fine art.

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5527 Score: 1

    Elan
    Participant
    9 votes
    @elan

    Tom, you wrote
    “Yes well I am also a fan of Dr. Robert Lanza and Biocentrism.”

    I am also and am hoping he will publish man more books and audiobooks
    It has been a long time since his first book
    Any news on this?

    thanks for bringing up this issue.

    Only a complete system could account for the complexity element we face…

    Elan Star
    Hawaii

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5530 Score: 1

    Elan
    Participant
    9 votes
    @elan

    Back to the issue of “randomness”
    CAN RANDOMNESS EXPLAIN THE FINE-TUNING OF THE UNIVERSE?

    May I give one of the thousands of analogies and metaphors that flood my mind ?
    Could an 8 million dollar stradavrious or guarnari violin come to perfect pitch and fine tuning
    from “dropping it?

    This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5540 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Hahahaa! Indeed Elan, some people seriously see the world that way! Loved your analogy 🙂

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