The living and conscious universe

///The living and conscious universe

This topic contains 34 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Menas Kafatos 4 years ago.

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  • #5396 Score: 2

    Menas Kafatos
    Moderator
    41 votes
    @menask

    Authors Ask

    Dear Readers of You Are the Universe,

    Here is a question from Deepak and Menas:

    Is the universe alive in the sense that life is one of its primary properties? And is also the underlying reality Consciousness, which means the other primary property is conscious Awareness? If the answer to both is yes, then randomness may allow for free will and be the driving force, rather than lead to the multiverse with no purpose, no aim, no direction.

    This post has received 2 votes up.
  • #5420 Score: 2

    Aurora Carlson
    Keymaster
    110 votes
    @aurorac

    Thank you for this question Menas! I had to ponder it for a while.

    I would say that life, aliveness, is one of the primary properties of not the universe, but of consciousness, because to me, the universe is the same as consciousness. So yes, aliveness is a primary property of … everything. Consciousness is alive and aware. I see no randomness, but neither do I see purpose in the way it is usually understood, as an intellectual goal. The purpose I see could maybe be called joy, beauty, truth, self-experience, and it is not a goal to be attained in some future, but a state of inspiration, like the outpouring of a fountain.

    Would love to read other perspectives on this 🙂

    This post has received 2 votes up.
    • #5479 Score: 2

      Elena
      Participant
      6 votes
      @elena

      The underlying reality Consciousness, is conscious Awareness
      The source of the universe is a field of nothing meaning, dimensionless, timeless,spaceless, massless, it is the source of all the energy and matter of the universe and it may have organising power because from this appears a universe that seems organised and finally it could be a field of awarenesss that is aware of itself.
      Randomness only create chaos

      This post has received 2 votes up.
    • #5487 Score: 1

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Elena, I like your answer and the last sentence was so interesting…
      Randomness only creates chaos you say, and I agree, how could it be in any other way? I am thinking that if a machine threw paint randomly on a canvas, it would result in chaos. But I guess that when looking at the chaotic, messy result, I would be able to discover (=create) patterns anyway 🙂 Maybe because a machine is not conscious while I am.
      What do you think?

      This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5569 Score: 1

      Diane E. Harper
      Participant
      12 votes
      @diane-e-harper

      Would “chaos” be only a word that we (humans) use to describe an un-identifided condition? We name or call something we fail to comprehend or reason out … chaos? Same for the word random. Something that is random is simply beyond our ability to see an order that unknowable to us.

      This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #6336 Score: 0

      Deepak Chopra
      Moderator
      60 votes
      @deepakchopra

      Dear Diane @diane-e-harper , thank you for asking this question. I have answered in Readers Ask: Is Chaos Creativity?

      Love,
      Deepak

  • #5439 Score: 1

    krista
    Participant
    24 votes
    @krista

    Hi Aurora,
    Here’s my take on consciousness and life

    Consciousness has the potential
    To manifest whatever it wants
    Or to be whoever it wants

    Consciousness
    The pure energy within us
    Call it Spirit, or Kundalini or Christ
    It doesn’t matter

    Whatever form she takes
    Is not her
    She can return
    To her source any time
    Because she is the source
    And there is no time

    We exist in our own consciousness
    And when we see that
    Everything comes to life
    All at once
    Like witnessing our own birth

    Within the wave is the potential to be a particle
    Within the particle is the potential to be a wave
    The form and the formless
    Everything and nothing

    Much love, Krista

    This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5451 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Dear Krista,

      I always love your expressions 🙂 It seems that you are speaking in music!
      Thank you for your poem of form as expression in the formless, of every thing as no thing. I’m smiling with you!

    • #5500 Score: 1

      Elena
      Participant
      6 votes
      @elena

      Dear Aurora,
      Randomness does not give order. Consciousness is fundamental, it is self driven and designs all things. Because you are awareness yourself (consciousness and awareness are synonymous words) then you are infinitely creative and therefore can create these patterns from the result on the canvas. Your own consciousness are creating them.
      Kindly
      Elena

      This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5501 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Yes, I agree Elena! 🙂

  • #5442 Score: 0

    Aum Krishna
    Participant
    5 votes
    @aum-krishna

    Dear authors

    I would like to refer from the Geeta wherein it is said , within the body there is Atma and then there is also Paramatma. Paramatma ( Param – supreme, Atma – energy/soul) in other words, the supreme soul also resides within us.

    When I was a child , I was taught in school, listen to your conscience,it is your inner voice..I dint quite understand it then but now I feel I do.. some choose to listen to the inner voice, and some don’t, but those who don’t is because the inner voice the conscience speaks only the truth and we fear the truth.

    I believe, this conscious / Paramatma is within us to guide our conditioned soul/ the Atma towards righteousness/dharma whilst the Atma takes its decision to perform it’s karma/day to day activities.

    Cheers

  • #5444 Score: 0

    krista
    Participant
    24 votes
    @krista

    Dear Aum Krishna,

    Love casts out fear
    Truth casts out lies

    Much love, Krista

  • #5455 Score: 0

    Aum Krishna
    Participant
    5 votes
    @aum-krishna

    Dear Krista (beautiful name)

    I agree

    Best wishes

  • #5480 Score: 1

    Paul Gopal
    Participant
    15 votes
    @paul

    Interesting question & answers.
    It seems like the universe is alive to me.
    Looking at the photos of Pluto, something majestic is there, somehow alive or a needed part of life.
    I like the idea of free will being the driving force.
    As this is the Easter Passover holiday. I am wondering.
    Did Moses really meet God?

    “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.”

    Exodus 3:14

    This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5488 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Ha 🙂 Good question Paul!
      I suppose it depends of what God means to any questioner. To some, it may mean a kind of super-person a usual person can meet. To others, it could mean a state of consciousness where “meeting” would equal accessing.
      And then we can of course ask… what, who and where is “Moses”.
      So there’s a lot to ponder 🙂 Wishing you a very happy Easter weekend!

  • #5485 Score: 1

    Richa
    Participant
    32 votes
    @richa

    Here is a question from Deepak and Menas: Is the universe alive in the sense that life is one of its primary properties? And is also the underlying reality Consciousness, which means the other primary property is conscious Awareness? If the answer to both is yes, then randomness may allow for free will and be the driving force, rather than lead to the multiverse with no purpose, no aim, no direction.

    I do believe that the universe is alive in the sense that life is one of its primary properties. The universe is also the underlying reality consciousness and conscious awareness, both. Randomness does permit free will and is the driving force. Multiverse exists, but there is an infinite purpose, aim, and direction.

    Our meta universe or multiverse is one of many universes in infinite terms. All together, these universes compose each and everything that is existing. The entropy in the entire universe increases over time.

    Like Dr. Chopra and Dr. Kafatos mention in “You are the Universe,”You are an island of order.” You can keep on eating food, drinking water, and breathing air, and your body will naturally continue to take care of its trillions of cells. Photosynthesis started billions of years ago. When we return to back in time, any system will indicate a greater orderliness in space and time. A rotting tree could return to being alive and growing. Life evolved on planet earth regardless of what was taking place in the rest of the universal galaxies. Conditions for life on earth specialized later onwards. Life evolved randomly. The early universe probably developed through random chance. This is a miracle.

    The molecules in our brain cells are fixated into specific chemical reactions. Life is one of universe’s primary properties. Photosynthesis and cellular respiration on earth are ancient interdependent phenomenons in life. The universe is alive, as life is its primary property.

    The reality consciousness is conscious awareness. Your consciousness is the ultimate biological basis of your thoughts and ideas. If you maintain a healthy intent in your reality consciousness and your conscious awareness, you will reach out and create ideas that are more positive in their nature, ever healthy in their expression, and bring you closer to divine universal consciousness. You are the universe, and the universe is you. You are the consciousness and the consciousness is you.

    Every experience happens in awareness. Awareness is reality consciousness.
    Consciousness is a quality of awareness.

    Based on multiverse, possible laws of nature unfold infinite times over. On earth, two headed cows are rarely born, unless there is a mutation. In multiverse, this is possible, as there are infinite possibilities. As Dr. Chopra and Dr. Kafatos point out in “You are the Universe,” do not forget that “the universe is self-organizing, driven by its own working processes.”

    The universe is powerful and so are you. As Dr. Deepak Chopra says, you can create the entire universe with consciousness, whether it is cosmic, divine, unity, or soul consciousness. Choices are made in consciousness. You must awaken yourself awarefully and see. What you see is an activity in your own consciousness. One must move to higher consciousness and experience joy, creativity, and infinite energy. Consciousness is the only reality. When you go deep, you will discover choiceless awareness, and hence, you allow the universe to flow via yourself. You then become instruments to the evolution of the universe.

    This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5502 Score: 1

      Paul Gopal
      Participant
      15 votes
      @paul

      Thanks Aurora,
      Happy Easter to you & Happy Passover & Easter to everyone

      This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5489 Score: 0

    Aurora Carlson
    Keymaster
    110 votes
    @aurorac

    Dear Richa, I read your post with interest. You write:

    Our meta universe or multiverse is one of many universes in infinite terms.

    So you see many universes constituting a meta universe, which in its turn is one of an infinite number of meta universes? I am not sure I have understood you correctly.
    If that’s what you mean, I wonder how you see that in which all these meta universes arise. “Where” do these meta universes arise, and where do they “go”?

  • #5503 Score: 2

    Richa
    Participant
    32 votes
    @richa

    Dear Aurora,

    I am not sure if I am right or wrong. I think I mean to say where there is micro cosmos, there is macro cosmos too. These universes I refer to are micro cosmos within the collective macro universe. These meta universes exist within the one universe. I am not sure if that makes sense or not?

    I was just speculating. I would love to hear back from you and our authors. I would love to receive some feedback and correction.

    Thanks so much.

    Regards,

    Richa

    This post has received 2 votes up.
    • #5537 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Dear Richa, I don’t think you should worry about right or wrong, we are discussing not only terms, but different levels of perceptions, which all are right from that particular point of view.
      I agree with @Shree that multiverse is a term used to refer to an infinite number of universes that cover all conceivable possibility, and I also understand your view of a macrouniverse as a conglomerate of microuniverses. But whenever I go on such thought-trips, I always return to the obvious: all of them and all of this is simply constructs in one undivided limitless, level-less, space-less, time-less but fully alive consciousness. That is to me what is always real. So answering Menas’ question from the perspective of this one undivided consciousness, yes it is alive and aware, and it experiences all possibilities and perspectives within itself.

  • #5504 Score: 1

    JenniferL
    Participant
    89 votes
    @jenniferl

    Thank you, Dr. Chopra and Dr. Kafatos, and hello everyone! <3

    This is what comes through for me after giving it some effort…

    All is according to His will, which is My will (aren’t pronouns synonymous?). In every object, I see Myself.

    Free will is embedded in the system because all manifestation is for the actualization of the one deity or consciousness.

    Every unit, from animal to man to angels to Gods, is essentially equal and working through the same lesson, that is, the Self or consciousness aspect of deity.

    I love you,
    JenniferL

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5505 Score: 0

    Sree
    Participant
    22 votes
    @sree

    Hello Richa,

    I too read your post with great interest, but had trouble following you at some spots. I think it may be because some terms are easy to confuse. For instance, I’m fairly sure ‘multiverse’ refers to the concept of multiple (infinite) universes. I’m not sure what ‘meta universe’ means, but i’m pretty sure it’s different from ‘multiverse’ :-).

    As for me, I’ve been pondering over Dr Menas’ multi-part question ever since he posed it here a few days ago, but have been stumped by the very first part (“Is the universe alive in the sense that life is one of its primary properties?”), for the simple reason that I’ve been unable to define life as a property. The animate / inanimate distinction is commonly used, but even that begins to break down when examined. When a person dies (ie ceases to be alive), the cells/tissues in their body are still active and changing (in admittedly different ways, but still in a known, predictable direction). Single-celled organisms are vastly different from us complex humans, but they are still considered to be alive. A grain of sand may be considered inanimate, but under a powerful microscope, it’s exchanging atoms with its surroundings just like our skin or lung linings are. On the larger end, whole stars and galaxies evolve in clear, majestic patterns. Looks like life to me! So I can’t escape the conclusion that every part of the universe (micro and macro) has life. But the stickler in me still wants a precise definition of life :-). The dictionary doesn’t really help:
    the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

    Any thoughts, all?
    Sree

  • #5507 Score: 1

    Richa
    Participant
    32 votes
    @richa

    Dear Sree,

    Thanks so much for your feedback. I shared on the forum earlier what I understood. Honestly, I am a little confused.

    I think meta universe is the same as multiverse, but I am not sure.

    I agree with your conclusion that every part of the universe has life. In the book, “You are the Universe,” Dr. Chopra and Dr. Kafatos say, “In Eastern Spiritual traditions, cyclical universes were accepted as a general concept taken from the life cycles of creatures being born, dying, and renewing themselves.”

    I seem to agree with your conclusion that every part of the universe, both micro and macro, has life.

    I would love to hear from our authors and others on the discussion board and see what they have to say about this question that Dr. Kafatos imposed.

    Thanks again for your response.

    Deepest regards,

    Richa

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5545 Score: 3

    Diane E. Harper
    Participant
    12 votes
    @diane-e-harper

    So glad to get my technology working! Is anyone talking about putting the practical use of the information in this book to work? One thing that I have used over the years is to use my understanding of how life works to solve problems that I face and to calm myself in times of stress. The simple reminder: It is my awareness of God that brings peace. Simply reminding myself that my mind has taken a detour away from truth and I can self-correct. Like others I’m sure, personal history clouds my thoughts – my awareness of truth helps to re-direct and not re-create my own history. I challenge myself daily to consciously create a better life for myself and others without re-creating painful memory/history.

    Thanks for your responses.
    Diane

    This post has received 3 votes up.
    • #5645 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Glad you’re back Diane! Yes, I think that most people on this forum are very interested in how to express these insights in practical terms. Thank you so much for your tip, always a good reminder!

  • #5560 Score: 1

    Elan
    Participant
    9 votes
    @elan

    Aloha All
    This lovely thread has so much insight….so many creative responses…
    Co creating a “science of” what yields a desired state is our mutual goal.
    Blessings.
    Elan Star

    This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5565 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      How wonderful that you too are an explorer of the science of consciousness Elan! 🙂 The more of us, the stronger the collective knowledge and exploration becomes! That is why we have gathered here!

  • #5568 Score: 0

    Diane E. Harper
    Participant
    12 votes
    @diane-e-harper

    I seem to keep coming back to what in my mind is the smallest place/time and that keeps me at a constant that I can understand. Something – Anything is or isn’t. On or off. I compare this to the symbols on our technology … 0 or 1. The space between the two states is the shortest possible TIME and the smallest possible SPACE. Then it is a knowing of or awareness of choice or INTENT. Awareness of the God principle active through me and knowing that my focus gives life to a thing. That is to activate what is already there to go in the direction of my (most often) subconscious or conscious thoughts. I feel strongly that we are making up our worlds as we go. What we focus on gets bigger. Bigger has more mass. Mass has gravity. The more gravity … the more attention. When I (you, me) hold an idea in thought we have an agreement to join our thoughts to an outcome. Good or bad is subjective. What we call good must be (if we are in our right mind) good for all because that is US being in alinement with expansion that is growth for all. Good for all. And here a reminder that growth just for growths sake is cancer.
    If the universe is expanding then it seems reasonable that we are inclined to do the same. I truly believe that there are only two choices available to us … extend love or project fear.
    Peace and thank you!
    Diane

  • #5625 Score: 1

    Ana Sanjuan
    Participant
    11 votes
    @anitasanjuan

    Hi Menas and everyone!

    Here is a question from Deepak and Menas: Is the universe alive in the sense that life is one of its primary properties? And is also the underlying reality Consciousness, which means the other primary property is conscious Awareness? If the answer to both is yes, then randomness may allow for free will and be the driving force, rather than lead to the multiverse with no purpose, no aim, no direction.

    What comes to mind for me is that yes, the universe is alive and is aware. These are primary. Randomness creates the possibility for iteration. This iteration can be creativity or intentional free will. So like an artist with a blank canvas, some of the paint strokes are intentional, and some are creatively iterative- meaning free form, unplanned, but continually emergent.

    As we humans are consciousness- are extensions of source- our free will actively creatives the universe as well. Choice around acting in harmony, unity, peace, love versus division, blame, shame creates an imprint on the universe.

    Love,
    Ana

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5628 Score: 1

    Diane E. Harper
    Participant
    12 votes
    @diane-e-harper

    As best I can;
    Asking if something is alive or if there is life ( in – past present and future) seems to me a moot point. Everything is alive and even dead grass is in process of becoming something else. Dare I say that even rocks are in process? Everything is alive. Despite our awareness of it. Therein lies a key point; awareness! Life is whether we are aware or not. Life doesn’t wait on our understanding of it or its expression … in Deepak’s words; Human Construct. The universe is alive and we are creating in OUR image within its construct. As an order of events I might say life … like love is always present and we manipulate according to our fear or understanding of love or life.
    If I were a scientist I feel that I’d go INTO my studies with an understanding that life is not of us therefore we can only discover and manipulate and add labels to any found thing. Life does not need our awareness of it. It is (in my mind) we who find, name and use what we find. Awareness seems to me a human construct and I need it to understand who I am and how I fit into the larger scheme of existence.
    My awareness at some point in future time my mean that I will literally become aware and instantly respond to that awareness. I believe things can be changed but that life isn’t of me but I can manipulate it. There is no such thing as a dead planet. That place between on or off, something or nothing, is my mystery point. Yes, the universe is alive and we have a play in it. Life will go it’s way until we mess with it and I believe we are messing with it. Peace and thank you, Diane (but I haven’t finished the book yet!)

    This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5629 Score: 2

      JenniferL
      Participant
      89 votes
      @jenniferl

      Hi Diane (and all!),

      As for finishing the book, savor it! Allow it to digest. There’s no contest to finish it, I’m hoping. Besides, it’s already inside you, so what do you not know? The intuition helps us bring it through, as well. ;P

      You mentioned the “process of becoming.” My question is, as I want to do this spiritual work of unfoldment consciously, what is the process? How do we recognize and define the next step?

      Lovely to continue our discussion, and at the same time bring together our discussion from another thread, Observe, Wave, Particle: click here.

      Love,
      Jennifer

      This post has received 2 votes up.
  • #5651 Score: 0

    Diane E. Harper
    Participant
    12 votes
    @diane-e-harper

    Hello, Jennifer (and anyone else!)
    I have made so many notes and highlighted so many parts of this book and I have blank books ready for more cohesive thoughts!
    The various steps one could take (in my experience) can come about as the spirit moves you I suppose! Any time that I feel off balance I find myself going back to my anchor point and that is to remember that I am creating the world as I go. I am using my god power to create at all times. Again, space and time is not of God but of MY making. Time and place are human constructs. The power of the creator is the constant. I bend and twist it (God power) when and where I want for my own perceived needs.
    So I’m not sure I can speak in terms of a next step, but I can speak for how I am using what I’ve learned from my studies to be in the process of my own evolution. It’s always in fits and starts. Rarely is the path smooth! But here is a point I’d like to put out there … there are no tests, math or experiments to prove what we are endeavoring to do. The proof of this pudding will be in the answer to the question ‘does it (what we are testing) work?’ Do we have verifiable results? That will be a bit trickier to prove. I’ve only the results of my personal issues that tell me that my changed mind has changed my life! Conscious living at all times is my goal. To me all the wisdom and all the science to this point have been trying to tell us the same thing. Deepak has reminded me that spiritual language should not be used in a scientific conversation!!!

    Peace and thank you, Diane

    • #5652 Score: 1

      JenniferL
      Participant
      89 votes
      @jenniferl

      Hi Diane,

      Thank you!

      I’m reminded that this isn’t a passive activity and there aren’t any imposing authorities to tell us what to do or belief, which is the beauty of the Work. It’s always up to us to remain discerning and identify the level of consciousness being presented to us so that we can work consciously and not play follow the leader.

      I’ve enjoyed our chats, abundantly!
      Love and Light,
      Jennifer <3

      This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #6356 Score: 1

    Menas Kafatos
    Moderator
    41 votes
    @menask

    Yes @elena , @diane-e-harper and All:

    “The underlying reality Consciousness, is conscious Awareness
    The source of the universe is a field of nothing meaning, dimensionless, timeless,spaceless, massless, it is the source of all the energy and matter of the universe and it may have organising power because from this appears a universe that seems organised and finally it could be a field of awareness that is aware of itself.
    Randomness only create chaos”

    It is the Field of Awareness. It is everything. Here is the additional point: Chaos itself is part of Awareness. Randomness appears as giving rise to not knowing but, underlying all is Knowingness.

    Randomness is from the outside, Knowingness is from the inside. The “inside” is the pure Subject. Which manifests as multiplicity, all depending on the pure Subject.

    Again, Complementarity.

    Menas

    This post has received 1 vote up.

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