This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Robin 4 years ago.

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  • #5316 Score: 2

    Robin
    Participant
    51 votes
    @robin

    Hello, Deepak and #YATU community. I continue to find this forum an important gathering place for those of us who share in the light, and hope to spread enlightenment in a world currently deep in shadow. Thank you!

    I know you’ve talked a lot about our embodiment on this planet as a temporary aspect of being (or, could we say, “becoming”?) that continues on, as there is no beginning or end, just a shift in awareness when we are no longer in our current physical bodies. But how to explain the existence and continuity of soul? Here, I would distinguish “soul” from “spirit” (or God, Ultimate Oneness, Ein Sof, or however we name the Whole in/from which we are all manifest).

    In the context of universal consciousness, I am not sure what soul is–do we have a quality or life force that exists as an essential part of being, and is it stable through all times and states of being? In other words, when I am not Robin, can the essence of the one who currently calls herself Robin remain constant and show continuity in other embodiments and localities (or incarnations)? Does soul have an independent consciousness, or is it, too, a subjective experience made of qualia?

    Hope you will shed a little more light here, Deepak!

    This post has received 2 votes up.
  • #5318 Score: 1

    JenniferL
    Participant
    89 votes
    @jenniferl

    Hi Robin and the Forum,

    I was just today reading about the Soul in The Book of Secrets by Dr. Chopra. How synchronous of you to bring this up today! 😛

    “The underlying reality is pure potential, which is also called the soul. I know how abstract this sounds, and so did the ancient sages of India. Looking at creation, which is filled with objects of the senses, they came up with a special term, Akasha, to fit the soul. The word Akasha literally means “space,” but the larger concept is of the soul space, the field of awareness…

    Imagine a house with four walls and a roof. If the house burns down, the walls and roof collapse. But the space inside isn’t affected. You can hire an architect to design a new house, and after you build it, the space inside still hasn’t been affected. By building a house you are only dividing unbounded space into inside and outside (pg 164-165 Book of Secrets).”

    This helped me with insight into the nature of the Soul. I hope it does for you, too! So far as I understand so far, the Soul is knowledge of the self (YATU and the specific). Spirit is understanding that same Self…and there are levels of consciousness beyond understanding.

    Let me know what comes through for you! <3

    Love
    Jennifer

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5319 Score: 1

    Robin
    Participant
    51 votes
    @robin

    Hi Jennifer, good to hear from you!

    I am so glad you mentioned The Book of Secrets. I have had it by my nightstand for a long time – I actually had the good fortune to meet Deepak and have him sign it during a weekend workshop in Upstate NY several years ago. I found the book fascinating at the time, but not something to read straight through–more like a codex capturing ancient wisdom to dip into and reflect on when the spirit so moves.

    I love the analogy of the house: the space remains when the structure is gone. A nice analogy. So would you say, by extension, that even when our physical bodies are gone, what was contained within the bounds of flesh and bone and muscle and microbiome and nervous system and physical and mental processing is still here–just released from the structure and activity of mind-body-ness?

    I want to ponder this notion a bit. I wonder how others of our #YATU tribe sit with soul-as-timeless-unbounded-being?

    Now I have another reason to go back to the Book of Secrets, too! Thank you for your sharing this, Jennifer.
    xo,
    Robin

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #5325 Score: 2

    Richard
    Participant
    2 votes
    @richard

    The soul is consciousness itself (apparently individuated). https://sqi.co/ego-and-soul/

    This post has received 2 votes up.
    • #5339 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Hi Richard, I completely agree with your definition:

      The soul is consciousness itself (apparently individuated).

      I also delighted in reading the materials on your website and much appreciate your referral to SQ, but I do have another view. If I understand you right, you are saying that spiritual intelligence comes from the soul, and if so, then I don’t really agree. In my view, the soul is in many cases conditioned and carries wounds it is working on through its incarnations. The soul is in other words in most cases still identified with matter and not with spirit, the soul is spirit with spots of amnesia 🙂 Spiritual intelligence is what guides the soul (and the person) on the journey to self-realization as pure consciousness.

      I do agree with you that a first step to evolution from the personal level is to discover and open up to the level of soul, but I would say that the journey continues, or even better, the journey is in reality the journey of awakening of the soul to its true identity as spirit. Also, I would not consider SQ one point in a triangle with EQ and IQ as the other equal factors. I would say that SQ is on a completely different level than the other two and any opening to more SQ results in an increase in both EQ and IQ.

      How does this resonate with you?

    • #5348 Score: 0

      Robin
      Participant
      51 votes
      @robin

      Hi Richard (@richard), thanks for your interesting thoughts. I love the idea of “whole brain” integration–your EQ + IQ + SQ equation. I, too, find neuroscience to be a fascinating opening to metacognition–the brain understanding itself which, as you suggest, cannot be done from the same level of conscious thought as the ego. I do think that the metacognitive must come from some higher level of awareness. To me, that awareness is loss of ego identification to witness ego from a soul level. I do think the spirit, as opposed to soul, is bound somewhat in time and space, and to transcend time and space requires perhaps what we might call meta-soul awareness, or spirit (i.e., consciousness).

      It’s really just a change of perception. The way this shows up for me is when I want to transcend ego thought, I literally transfer my vision from seeing and thinking from my body level to looking at “my self” and my actions from above. Think of sitting on a riverbank and watching the water rushing past as Tier 1 awareness. Then walking or running alongside the river and tracking/keeping track of the water’s flow with the progress of, say, a branch floating in its current would be Tier 2. Seeing the water from a precipice above the river gives you a sense of the whole, all at once, Tier 3. You watch the branch in the current and the forces that overtake it as another current merges or sweeps it along, and the people or boats, and all that interacts with the scene. And you can have an entirely different experience in each state.

      Tiers 1 and 2, you have a more limited view in your relationship to the river.Tier 3 allows you to see the many forces at work. One is not better than the other–just different.

      So with the soul–we are able to observe the self and the world from a Tier 3 level. It is metacognitive. What is above that level is consciousness itself, or what I call spirit–it embraces and transcends that experience to comprehend all at once.

      In creating my teen time travel novel and learning platform, Edge of Yesterday, (out this week!) I have studied the Renaissance genius, Leonardo da Vinci, to glean how this artist, engineer, geologist, anatomist, inventor, musician, scientist and philosopher was able to tap into some profound field of knowing that enabled him to observe, study, design and invent the future–things like a robot, scuba gear, a glider and helicopter, tank and bicycle, hundreds of years before these came into being in our world. My favorite quote of the qualia of Leonardo’s experience is this:

      “In rivers, the water that you touch is the last of what has passed and the first of that which comes; so with present time.”
      ~Leonardo da Vinci

      In honor of the polymath’s 565th birthday on April 15, I salute the spirit of transcendence that can enable us all to tap into the river of consciousness and design a better future for all of humanity.

  • #5338 Score: 0

    Aurora Carlson
    Keymaster
    110 votes
    @aurorac

    Hello Robin!
    Such a great discussion your question has brought us, I’m grateful to you, @jenniferl and @richard ! 🙂

    Like you, I make a distinction between the term “soul” and “spirit”, where spirit is what the authors of YATU call pure consciousness (p. 243):

    … thoughts, sensations, images, and feelings […] are the contents of the mind. Remove the contents and what remains is pure consciousness, which is silent, unmoving, beyond time and space, yet filled with creative potential. Pure consciousness gives rise to everything, including the human mind.

    While spirit (pure consciousness) is that which gives rise to everything, soul is spirit on its way to matter (a state of consciousness between spirit and matter). Deepak has during the years described the soul as karma+memory+desire, which means that it is a certain pattern, in consciousness. These patterns exist on many levels, so there is a universal soul, a forest soul, a human soul, a British soul, a dolphin soul, etc.

    The soul could be said to have one foot in spirit (timeless, transcendent) and one foot in matter (timebound, personal), and these soul patterns are not bound by clock time but also not free of time altogether. In different books by Deepak I have found the term “cosmic time” which corresponds to my observations of different lifetimes my soul has experienced.

    To summarize, I would say that soul is the impulse giving rise to an experience in consciousness spanning through cosmic time and expressing itself as a series of different physical identities in linear time, all following a particular energetic pattern.

    🙂 Any thoughts?

    • #5351 Score: 1

      Robin
      Participant
      51 votes
      @robin

      Hi Aurora! Thank you for sharing your profound wisdom. I love this distinction between the soul having one “foot” in matter and one foot in spirit. I see an image of the Jolly Green Giant with one foot on each side of a deep valley, essentially bridging the divide. (Helps to have a little fun with the subject!)

      But it also neatly illustrates your excellent definition:

      “Soul is the impulse giving rise to an experience in consciousness spanning through cosmic time and expressing itself as a series of different physical identities in linear time, all following a particular energetic pattern.”

      Interesting that you mention soul patterns and specifically that of dolphin soul–I had a “dolphin dream” many years ago that sticks with me to this day. I am swimming in a river or canal that cuts through the heart of a city. Faceless high-rise buildings line each side of the waterway. The water feels pleasant. A dolphin swims up beside me and offers me his flipper. I grab it and he carries me in dolphin embrace on a wild ride, gliding fast through the water. Everyone is astonished; he’s never done this before. I feel honored. I get out of the water and the dolphin stays close by. Someone – a minder – asks me if I will take care of him since he clearly chose me.

      This dream struck a powerful chord in me. It feels at once nurturing, creative, thrilling and hopeful.

      I have, since childhood, been in touch with non-physical realities: frequently communicating directly with my father after his death in 2003; experiencing multiple life regressions—a fully felt artistic life in prehistory; a mother registering loss and unbearable sadness in Jerusalem in the time of Jesus; a gypsy singer in 19th century Italy, and a legislator close to President Lincoln.

      Are these stuff of the imagination? Is it my soul experiencing different karmic patterns (and are these the same as archetypes?), as you suggest, and dealing in that level of consciousness to learn from the qualia of these experiences? And is the wisdom of the soul accessible in all times/all states–that cosmic time or consciousness you remind me that @Deepak talks about?

      I don’t know–but it is my “felt sense” that these are all soul manifestations in experience. And the “I” that experiences them in different states/times/beingness, is continuous and interconnected with the “I” that I now am. I am that I am, right?

      As Passover starts tomorrow, I am reminded that, in mystical Jewish writings, there were 600,000 souls–representing “all” of us in all times and places–at the foot of Mount Sinai when Moses “went up” to receive God’s word. And all of us here today were present at that moment when God pronounced the silent Aleph (first letter of the Hebrew alphabet–which is not pronounced) of the Torah. That silent syllable was so powerful, it overwhelmed all of those at the foot of the mountain; only Moses was present enough to hear it. His job was to capture God’s wisdom on a tablet to carry it down to all the souls–to translate it in a way that we could all understand.

      We–speaking of a society-at-large that is so far from that understanding today–are still beneficiaries of that word, but have lost our way. We need another mountaintop experience to remind ourselves that we all can manifest the word of God, if we open our minds and ears to the silence.

      Thank you for sharing your wisdom, dear Aurora! So much to reflect on as I prepare our seder.

      This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5357 Score: 0

      JenniferL
      Participant
      89 votes
      @jenniferl

      Robin,

      This definition you shared really resonated with me:

      “Soul is the impulse giving rise to an experience in consciousness spanning through cosmic time and expressing itself as a series of different physical identities in linear time, all following a particular energetic pattern.”

      How beautiful!

      Your questions about past life experiences, imaginations, dreams, etc…remind me of my own experiences. I bring it back to oneness, where these experiences are seen as energy packets (energetic experiences) to be unfolded and contain the keys to self-awareness when worked through to completion – where realization can come through as something novel about ourselves, we hadn’t remembered before. It’s the application of the realization in the present moment, which at the same time heals the past, and sets a higher vibrational course for the so-called future. What an amazing and uplifting experience!

      I hope this shines light for you.

      Love to All,
      JenniferL

    • #5389 Score: 1

      Robin
      Participant
      51 votes
      @robin

      Thanks for your thoughtful responses, @jenniferl. To be accurate, it was @aurorac who offered that lovely definition! I feel we are all blessed to share in the wisdom of all those participating in this discussion. It is cause for much soul growth–towards the generative impulses of spirit.

      To your question, How do we know? That is, indeed the beautiful mystery of life. It is certainly not through the thinking mind. And the qualia through which we experience reality in this embodiment is a limited instrument, except when it comes to the deeper knowing, or Akasha, that, to my mind, is in the Mind of God–outside direct experience, beyond our senses and emotions, non-measurable, silent and all-knowing.

      I am curious to hear how my fellow travelers in consciousness “know”?

      This post has received 1 vote up.
    • #5492 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Delightful question Robin, it would deserve its own topic and if you mean it as also a question to the authors, it would be great to hear their take on this too. Good luck with the book launch tomorrow! <3

    • #5370 Score: 0

      Aurora Carlson
      Keymaster
      110 votes
      @aurorac

      Dear Robin,

      I have read the experiences both you and @jenniferl have shared, it’s a true delight! I so much love meeting people who look deeper!

      My answer to your question “Are these stuff of the imagination?” is… Isn’t every thing of the imagination? It’s time, I think, to smile at the old habit of refuting inner experience as valid, on the naive presumption that things are anywhere other than precisely in imagination.

      The question is of course.. whose imagination? 🙂 Which leads us to “who am I” as much as “who are you”…

      We can smile together as we tell stories about the soul, knowing that all these women discussing and their stories are, after all… creations of consciousness. It makes for such enjoyable experience! 🙂

  • #5356 Score: 0

    JenniferL
    Participant
    89 votes
    @jenniferl

    Hello @robin, @richard, @Aurora, @angie and the discussion forum!

    Here’s my understanding so far with this discussion about, “What is the Soul?” (what an inspiring topic!):

    Time as an entity has no power over the Soul or Spiritual aspects of any being. Time is created and employed by the indwelling entity or true self. Anytime space is created, we have time, experienced on many levels of consciousness, even to the Divine. The key is that it no longer rules the indweller; rather, it is employed as a vehicle of expression; where time can be manipulated. This is why we never want to tell ourselves we are running out of time because we create a time deficit. It’s better to say, “I have plenty of time.” After all, you created time.

    The etheric body is closely associated with the physical plane. I’ve read studies on children who have incarnated with birth-defects, and subsequently had past life memories of injuries in the location where the defect was located. This is interesting work and worth studying; however, the etheric body is not entirely the same as the Soul Body, from what I understand so far, which resides above it. The lessons of the personality are still being worked through, and the lesson repeats.

    The Soul is the vehicle of expression to a greater entity, the Spirit. At the soul identified level all knowledge is given to us, and the Eternal Now is experienced. The repeated cycles of the personality are overcome. Karma, as understood so far, is worked off. We are no longer bound to the earthly planes (or the three planes of man – physical, emotional, and mental planes comprising the personality vehicle), though we still have our expression there through the physical body, energetically understood. The experience of duality is also overcome, by an large, and we remember God is. There is a distinction in that the physical planes no longer holds sway, or has power over the indwelling conscious entity. Most cultural conditioning, limiting beliefs, and time-bound experiences have been overcome or transmuted into the higher awareness. The lessons of the personality are mastered and the consciousness of the indweller no longer resides there (Self Mastery is developed, though Enlightenment is considered Buddhahood and resides between the Spiritual and Soul aspects).

    The Spiritual level of consciousness is identification with Our Father in Heaven (as one way of expressing this), and where it is said, “I and my Father are One.” It’s identification with the divine creative aspect. At this level of conscious awareness the Soul-infused Personality is the vehicle of expression, and no longer bound to time conditions of the earthly plane, as mentioned above.

    Even as I write this I’m asking myself, ‘What is Buddhahood, then? Or what is Enlightenment?’ And what I see so far, is that Enlightenment is the ability to express one’s self as a completed unit of energy. Some also call it Christ Consciousness. This is the point of attainment of Siddhartha as he sat under the Bodhi Tree, and brought through the needed lessons for all of us to remember.

    What an amazing discussion. We can ask ourselves, well, how do we know? And, really get the ball rolling.;P I look forward to hearing more.

    Richard and Angie, I’ve already met Robin and Aurora (whom I’ve come to adore!). It’s also a pleasure meeting you, here, on the YATU forum, as well. I look forward to everyone’s posts!

    All my love, <3
    JenniferL

  • #5544 Score: 0

    Robin
    Participant
    51 votes
    @robin

    Thanks for ferreting out the essential question here, @aurorac! So yes, I would love the authors, @deepakchopra and @menask to weigh in on this question: “How do we know?”

    In my experience as a science writer, knowing comes from the scientific method: hypothesis, test, assess, report on the facts and await independent testing for confirmation. That, of course, reflects knowing in the material world, which we now understand to be made up of the qualia of human experience.

    The scientific method no longer applies to measure the evidence of consciousness. In my experience as a fiction writer and explorer of conscious awareness, “knowing” comes to me in stillness, walks in nature, in prayer, and in dreaming and waking states when I set my mind free of the constraints of my conditioning.

    How do you experience it? Is it any less “real” for lacking “evidence” and replicability? How do we know it to be true?

    Thank you for your wisdom on this!

  • #5725 Score: 0

    Deepak Chopra
    Moderator
    60 votes
    @deepakchopra

    Dear @robin, I have answered your initial question about the soul in Readers Ask: Does the Soul Have Independent Existence?

    Thank you and love!
    Deepak

  • #6355 Score: 1

    Menas Kafatos
    Moderator
    41 votes
    @menask

    Jennifer and Robin ( @jenniferl @robin ):

    The soul is pure conscious Awareness, which exists beyond space and time. All souls, innumerable number of them, share the same nature of conscious Awareness. They are of Light, but not the light we “see” with our eyes. The Light of Existence. They go on forever, although the appear to be finite and of the nature of the body. The body is the external shell, the vessel of the soul. The vessel comes and goes, like the skin of a snake or the shell of a sea creature, but the organism itself goes on.

    Best,

    Menas

    This post has received 1 vote up.
  • #6366 Score: 0

    Robin
    Participant
    51 votes
    @robin

    Thank you for your insights, Menas. I love the analogy of the body as a shell while the soul continues, especially as we are currently in the midst of an early appearance of a 4-year-early cycle of the 17-year cicadas in my part of the US, who shed their shells, have a brief, 6-week lifespan, mate, and whose offspring rise from the dead. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/05/17/the-giant-bugs-on-the-sidewalks-are-cicadas-that-rose-from-the-dead-4-years-too-early/?utm_term=.74fffd932985.

    I just found one of their shells clinging underneath the leaf of a peony bush in my garden as I cut the flowers to bring inside. It made me wonder about the universe a cicada “knows”. Of course, as far as we understand, cicadas don’t have agency–they live a short pre-programmed life, never to know their offspring or see this world again.

    Are cicadas souls? Wouldn’t it be fascinating to know a cicada universe? 😉

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